Fast, photo-realistic maps

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Re: Fast, photo-realistic maps

Postby TTorpedo » Tue Sep 05, 2006 10:54 am

Not shareware, I got it cheape from a colegue. There´s a 90 € version but i dont know is limitations.

Yes it has lot of mountains, i found it looked better on 2d if you exagerate a bit

Didn´t knew about your DEM efforts, good work, unfortanly the DEM scale does not fit to well. But you can make a 3d map out of any grey scale image., have you tryed your tecnic whid an hand made picture emulating a DEM?

3km by 3km = 12000 x 12000 in pixels?
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Re: Fast, photo-realistic maps

Postby G.Mooyman » Tue Sep 05, 2006 12:59 pm

Isnt making a greyscale map as time consuming as coding the elevation? Unless the shadows can be used from the PS document,... hmmm
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Re: Fast, photo-realistic maps

Postby TTorpedo » Tue Sep 05, 2006 2:08 pm

Don´t think is that hard . You just need to paint betewen the curve lines (on a topographic chart) and blend it on a grey scale. well at list in theory.. have to try do
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Re: Fast, photo-realistic maps

Postby philip_wells » Tue Sep 05, 2006 2:18 pm

G.Mooyman wrote:imo maps in 1:10000 scale arnt good enough.


The actual scale of the base DEM is not that important, the world to an extent is a fractil, ie a pattern that repeats itself at diferent scales. e.g. look at the coastline of any country in an atlas were it is smooth you will find it smooth at finer scale. A shareware program 3DEM enables u to read digital elevation maps such as the public domain SRTM imagery of the whole world a provide shading etc. This has a resolution of 90 m except in the usa where it was 30m resolution. If you load up the imagery and if it looks right you can use it so you take your 30m pixel and call it 3 m or whatever. In my experience it is much easier to use actual topography than making your own.
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Re: Fast, photo-realistic maps

Postby JimRM2 » Tue Sep 05, 2006 4:59 pm

TTorpedo that map looks awesome! I've always had a difficult time communicating cliffs in 2d but that program definitely delivers the goods. I'll have to look into that prog. Love the aesthetic of the colors and lighting level you chose. Nice job!

You should make an entry in the CCReb request for maps.
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Re: Fast, photo-realistic maps

Postby G.Mooyman » Wed Sep 06, 2006 12:37 am

philip_wells wrote:The actual scale of the base DEM is not that important


Ah ok. So the DEM files are more or less a form of vectors?
The downside atm is that the Axis never raged war in the US. And its pretty damn hard atm to find DEM (or related formats) maps of Europe. At least as far as I know. So we still need to relly on regular maps; which are also pretty damn hard to find at 1:10000 or lower scale. (above only for historic correct maps :) )

But if anybody knows some free DEM maps of Arnhem, Narva or the Lorainne area let me know :D
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Re: Fast, photo-realistic maps

Postby philip_wells » Wed Sep 06, 2006 1:13 am

My comment relating to DEM's is to use them to create interesting and 'realistic' forms, if you want them to actually provide the real form of an actual place you would have to part with money or from a 1:10,000 scale map digitise the contours then use those to create a high resolution DEM (hard work). You could use low resolution DEM's such as SRTM and interpolate them to a higher resolution but at best you would get a very smoothed out version of reality.
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Re: Fast, photo-realistic maps

Postby yukongold » Wed Sep 06, 2006 2:25 am

There is some good discussion going on here..........my conclusion so far is that thinking out of the box and trying new techniques is never a waste of time......always something valuable is learned.
3km by 3km = 12000 x 12000 in pixels?

Actually 15,000 by 15,000..........likely beyond the reach of most computer's system resources.......at least for now. My first computer was a hotrod 386DX with 16 meg of ram!!!! We have come a long way since then.
The downside atm is that the Axis never raged war in the US. And its pretty damn hard atm to find DEM (or related formats) maps of Europe. At least as far as I know.

That is rapidly changing G. Mooyman, there is an amazing growth in this field. For the present, Nasa's SRTM data sets are the only free data available for International regions. There are a number of local municipalities that have 3min resolution images available in Geotif format. It does take some scratching around to fine them though. You might want to get in touch with Buck Compton for some contacts in Europe. 3DEM does have its limitations in that with lower resolution data sets the image can't be made large enough to bring it to actual scale for CC. Actually that is not entirely true........the 3D VRML viewer included can output a large image but any texture overlay will look pretty ragged by then..........using larger scaling on your textures might help..............
I've got another trick up my sleeve using a different program.......will let everyone know how it works out.
http://www.closecombat.org/forums/showthread.php?t=10702
There is a small program (plt2dem) that works in conjunction with OziExplorer that can generate a dem from track files that have been overlayed onto the topo lines and then assigned elevations.
http://www.westernfront.co.uk/thegreatwar/articles/trenchmaps/3dmap.htm
Quicker to go with the SRTM data......One word of caution for SRTM data, it will reflect off of a forest canopy giving a false elevation for heavily wooded areas. Genesis II had a similar utility but was NOT user friendly. Ozi3D has its limitations too.....the output file is proprietary, so piecing a bunch of screen captures together is the only option.......time consuming but do-able.
So it would seem, at least for now, IMHO there is no EASY way to create historically accurate maps based on true elevations. :confused-
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Re: Fast, photo-realistic maps

Postby TTorpedo » Wed Sep 06, 2006 7:10 pm

You should make an entry in the CCReb request for maps.[/QUOTE]


Thanks.
I Dont understand de CCReb entry thing. But then again isn´t really a map yet lacks the PSP hand paint touch and coding :speechles


Does anyone as a topographic map of an historical battle place?
I would like to give a go and emulate it using some sort of grey scaling tecnic. I did a fast search on the net and nothing good enouf to use
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Re: Fast, photo-realistic maps

Postby yukongold » Wed Sep 06, 2006 8:40 pm

TTorpedo, would you be interested in doing a Vietnam map? I can point you to some topos for that theatre of war. I'll see what I can scare up a map for Iwo Jima too......there was some discussion about that making an interesting mod......and would certainly be a great challenge for mapmaking.....lots of underground emplacements. Here is a 1:10,000 map link for Iwo Jima....
http://www.lib.utexas.edu/maps/historical/iwo_jima_2003.jpg
and a bit of a background.....
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Iwo_Jima

Cheers! :)
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Re: Fast, photo-realistic maps

Postby G.Mooyman » Thu Sep 07, 2006 12:04 am

TTorpedo wrote:Does anyone as a topographic map of an historical battle place?


Here are the south and north of Kharkov. Which battle do you need,.. the first, second or the third :D

http://mapy.mk.cvut.cz/data/Ukrajina-Ukraine/Topo%201_100%20000/M-37/M-37-073.jpg
http://mapy.mk.cvut.cz/data/Ukrajina-Ukraine/Topo%201_100%20000/M-37/M-37-061.jpg

Strat map of the 3rd battle]http://www.battlefront.co.nz/images/historical/kharkov-map-8.jpg[/url]
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Re: Fast, photo-realistic maps

Postby TTorpedo » Fri Sep 08, 2006 5:01 pm

Thanks
I would rather lead the charge of the tigers on the 3º Krakov battle!
But this Iwo Jima map is far better for the purpouse. I´ll have a shot at the island.

It can take some time do D\-
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Re: Fast, photo-realistic maps

Postby yukongold » Fri Sep 08, 2006 5:52 pm

Here is an Iwo Jima link that looks quite interesting..........
http://www.geocities.com/rbackstr2000/
:)
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Re: Fast, photo-realistic maps

Postby animosity242 » Fri Sep 08, 2006 6:59 pm

yukongold wrote:Here is an Iwo Jima link that looks quite interesting..........
http://www.geocities.com/rbackstr2000/
:)


Exceeded its capacity.

Upload the pic
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Re: Fast, photo-realistic maps

Postby TTorpedo » Wed Sep 13, 2006 12:04 am

Iwo Jima
I made a fake DEM (grey scale image) out of the Iwo Jima map and voilá.

The island is about 7.5km by 4.5km. A 5000 pixel map would be enough for the mount Suribachi (the one on first plane).

It’s difficult to imagine 20.000 Japanese on the island.
I´ll see if i can hadd more detail, and eventualy a map out of it
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