Fast, photo-realistic maps

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Re: Fast, photo-realistic maps

Postby G.Mooyman » Wed Sep 13, 2006 2:35 am

Looks very cool !!!
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Re: Fast, photo-realistic maps

Postby philip_wells » Wed Sep 13, 2006 4:38 am

The density of Japanese soldiers roughly equates to one platoon per hectare (100mx100m) over the entire island.
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Re: Fast, photo-realistic maps

Postby yukongold » Fri Sep 15, 2006 3:03 pm

Great job TTorpedo!! :) Zoomed in that rendering could make the image for a nice strat map. How onerous was making the greyscale from topo lines?
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Re: Fast, photo-realistic maps

Postby TTorpedo » Sat Sep 16, 2006 1:38 pm

The grey scale took me around 5/ 6 hours of hard labour. Thanks to the “Colour Range” picking tool.

This grey scale image (or parts of it) can probably be used in the “mountain tecnic” as stated on Subfkles map guide making, giving a roof layout for the maps.

As for the strat map, my thoughts to, if nothing else. I’ve been experimenting adding the map as a texture to the 3d model.
By the looks of it I guess anything can be drawn on the surface, so the strat map is possible maybe not so realistic to the eye (well depends on the artist) but accurate
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Re: Fast, photo-realistic maps

Postby GiJoe » Mon Sep 18, 2006 6:06 am

I read this thread with interest , especially when it mentioned Vue d'esprit.
I used Vue to make a number of small fantasy maps. I made almost everything in 3d and then took those results and converted them back to playable 2d. Its a lot of extra effort for so-so results but I thought it was interesting to try to do a 3d map and work backwards to get a playable map.


This is how the original 3d map appeared
Image


This is what the final playable 2d map looked like
Image

Finally here is a movie that shows the 3d view from a panther
turret as the tank travels over the map. (drunken tank drivers) :) .
http://www.savefile.com/files/83436


Vue is a fun program to play with even if you never apply it
to CC stuff. Its like Bryce on steroids. Im glad to see other people
are experimenting with it too.
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Re: Fast, photo-realistic maps

Postby GI_JONZ » Mon Sep 18, 2006 6:28 am

Thats some cool stuff there GIJOE thanks for your efforts and for sharing. I like everyone else here love to look at Close Combat related stuff, particularly the innovative ideas like yours here.
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Re: Fast, photo-realistic maps

Postby JimRM2 » Mon Sep 18, 2006 7:07 pm

Yep cool stuff. Have you done 2D map making? If so how does making a map in 3D compare to the time it takes to do a map in 2D? Just curious what you've found.
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Re: Fast, photo-realistic maps

Postby pfc.Michael » Tue Sep 19, 2006 9:33 am

@ GiJoe:
I have always enjoyed your 3D CCII maps and vehicles,I could look/stare at them for hours.
I have also always dreamed of playing your CC 3D game,even though I know it probably only exsists in our dreams.

Great job,can't wait to see what will be next.

Thanks for sharing it with us.

Edit:
I was just wondering.......
Have you ever imported your maps into a 3D game like G.I. Combat or EYSA?
If so how did you like it?

A 3D game with graphics like your would be so incredible,I just wish games like that could be configured to use a hand held controller along the lines of like Nintenos GameCube.
If you count it up the controller has like 14 button options wich would probably make those 3D games more enjoyable to play,scrolling with a toggle stick would in all likely be much much easier.
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Re: Fast, photo-realistic maps

Postby TTorpedo » Tue Sep 19, 2006 4:34 pm

GiJoe
Very Cool work! I new your work from CCS (didn´t know you use vue d´esprit to)

From my small experience the construction of a full 3d enviroment specialy with the level of detail needed to make it "natural" is very hard/ time consuming to obtain.
On my end, Never thought of making the full enviroment on 3d just as a mean to model the terrain, to much hard work for me :D

Neverdeless I still expect CC on 2d Top view! just whit better "real time" efects, wheather and destructible enviroments, whith direct impact on gameplay not just for show.
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Re: Fast, photo-realistic maps

Postby GiJoe » Tue Sep 19, 2006 5:16 pm

It is a lot of extra work doing stuff this way and I burned
out making maps and decided to go back to playing instead
of modding :) . Pfc Michael, I never got into squad assault.
I do visit eysa forums and have seen some of the stuff people
have done with it. Im hoping battlefronts Theatre Command will
be the magic bullet everyones been waiting for but I doubt
I will be able to run that on my 4 year old pc. TTorpedo
what version of vue do you have? I love to make forests
with vue. Thousands of trees at the click of a mouse ;)
I love that program.
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Re: Fast, photo-realistic maps

Postby JimRM2 » Tue Sep 19, 2006 6:14 pm

Ok so no time saved by creating the map in 3D first then taking a 2D top down picture of it. I was hoping that by not having to draw in the shadows you'd save yourself time as well as other time saving features. I would imagine tho that once you have models drawn in that changes and new maps would be easy. Especially detailed interiors. You'd just copy and paste the 3D models to a new map, re-arrange them then take a new 2D picture. Also creating elevation would be a snap using a mesh and adjusting the points on the mesh. It's been years since I've used a 3D modelling program so maybe I'm forgetting a lot but the parts I do recall make me think this would be worth investigating.

So do you draw all your 3D maps from scratch or do you now have a library of components from which to place in the drawing?
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Re: Fast, photo-realistic maps

Postby GiJoe » Wed Sep 20, 2006 3:01 am

In a lot of ways what you just said is highly accurate. Some aspects
of making a map this way are easier. Once you get an inventory of
models to populate a map then it gets easier.

The main problem I had was perspective distortion in the final
overhead screen shot. I can give a good example of what Im talking
about.

A simple 3d model might look like this...
Image
The final overhead screenshot looks like this...
The pink area highlights the perspective problem with building sidewalls.
Image
So to solve that I have to pull all the buildings downwards
so the roof is flush with the ground
Image
to get something that looks proper in the 2d cc universe
Image
But this creates additional problems in regards to building shadows
they are now out of whack and that has to be fixed too. On a city map wih lots of buildings you can imagine how you could get bogged down dealing with stuff like this.
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Re: Fast, photo-realistic maps

Postby G.Mooyman » Wed Sep 20, 2006 3:21 am

GiJoe wrote:The main problem I had was perspective distortion in the final
overhead screen shot. I can give a good example of what Im talking
about.


Have you tried playing around with the focal length of the camera in the 3D program?
I think doing the ground/hills in 3d is a real time saver. If only saving the shades as an alpha layer for PS.
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Re: Fast, photo-realistic maps

Postby GiJoe » Wed Sep 20, 2006 7:46 am

The default top camera setting was 50mm. I increased that number
to 400 and it does seem to greatly reduce the distortion. Thanks
for the suggestion. Its something I would never have discovered on
my own.
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Re: Fast, photo-realistic maps

Postby TTorpedo » Wed Sep 20, 2006 1:11 pm

Gijoe
I use Vue infinite (got it on second hand!) Hopefully i´m getting a new pc soon, so maybe i hill get more juice out of it. The capacity's of the program are really awesome, but..
8h to make a 5000 pixels render :speechles without any special atmospheres or objects..

The way might be making a big 3d scenario from where you can take 4 maps (or more) This scenario can rapidly be change to a winter versions adding 4 more maps to the game.

For example in the Iwo Jima island you can see the map lines on the last image each square is 900meters side, so had to be rendered at around 4500 pixels to get the CC map scale.
I know alf would be enouf but the main problem is adding objects- in the "right scale" - to the big model, its a nightmare for my pc. I haven't found any way of cropping it from the main model allowing my pc to handle it

Now if, eventualy, a plugin could allow the coding programs to read directly the information from the model that would be realy a giant leap forward. Imagine you have the the strat map/ 3Dmodel you could zoom in on any given point and have your battle! humm i´m dreaming :D
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