New Mod IDEAS - THOUGHTS ? Not Done Before?

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New Mod IDEAS - THOUGHTS ? Not Done Before?

Postby Sulla » Fri Apr 03, 2015 5:45 pm

Hia Guys

There are still many areas that have not really been covered by any mods. I was wondering what people would like to see or what is a mod that REALLY has been missed?

The strong point of CC has as we all know always been infantry. With much larger maps, new or changed features, there are a lot of possibilities. I think maybe time for something different? Ideas guys? Here are a few random ones.....

Soviet Invasion Afghanistan
Burma - Commonwealth V Japanese [intense fighting - very varied terrain]
Boer War [?]
Dien Bien Phu [French v Vietnamese]
Boxer Rebellion [?] legations/USMC etc
1948 Arab–Israeli War
Somalia - Rangers / Blackhawk Down
Malayan War
East Prussia - Russian Offensive 1944 [Gumbinnen Operation] - The East Prussian Offensive - Ended 25th /4/45
American Civil War [A Major Campaign or Battle]
Polish-Soviet War [1919-1921]
Gothic Line [Operation Olive has been described as the biggest battle of materials ever fought in Italy. Over 1,200,000 men fought]
Battle of Ia Drang
Bosnian War
Battle of the Scheldt [V Tough Infantry Fighting]


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Re: New Mod IDEAS - THOUGHTS ? Not Done Before?

Postby DAK_Legion » Fri Apr 03, 2015 9:57 pm

For CCIII/CoI??

Somalia-Black Hawk Down was made or unfinished a long ago for CCIII
Arab-Israeli conflict is playable on CoI_Valley_of_Tears
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Re: New Mod IDEAS - THOUGHTS ? Not Done Before?

Postby Pete » Fri Apr 03, 2015 11:53 pm

Sulla wrote:Hia Guys

There are still many areas that have not really been covered by any mods. I was wondering what people would like to see or what is a mod that REALLY has been missed?

The strong point of CC has as we all know always been infantry. With much larger maps, new or changed features, there are a lot of possibilities. I think maybe time for something different? Ideas guys? Here are a few random ones.....


Battle of the Scheldt [V Tough Infantry Fighting]


Sulla


Don't tell me you actually missed the Battle of the Scheldt mod for CC5...
The Italy campaign is still an area that deserves to be covered. The Ortona mod covers just a tiny portion of it.
A Sicily mod would be very welcome too.
Case Red should be on the list too. As should the invasion of Norway and I can think of a few others.
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Re: New Mod IDEAS - THOUGHTS ? Not Done Before?

Postby Sulla » Sat Apr 04, 2015 12:29 am

It depends on version.

CC4 and CC5 were my LEAST favourite to play. I hate the chequerboard random deploy that wipes your previous play off the game.

Later versions did improve slightly, but SAI was bad and the SAI layer was always pretty much a tacked on layer that added little. CC really took a hit when Microsoft left.

What is the point of fighting on the tactical level, then on the next map, or even same map, your deployment area is simply a box? There is no simple fix, the TAI of CC is great, [could be improved but best yet in squad based combat] but the code allows no decent SAI. The game desperately needs a decent SAI.

TBH even CC3 / CoI was better with a linear campaign, at least the maps cohesion and progression made sense, as did deploy and map damage.

Arab Israeli conflict? The war for independence? Taggart forts? The British? Irgun, Hagganah? THAT would be a mod on its own, with some great maps and infantry fighting.

BHD would be good to finish. Quite a few mods to finish lol ;)

Scheldt, I missed! Probably was made while I was ill! I was pretty much out for 3 years or so.

It could also be time for a new version [new engine, new code, new design] for CC. I needs so many things, the ability to reinforce positions, sandbags, basic use of trenches, fox holes, protection during deployment. Vehicles with proper unit carrying ability. A third side that can become belligerent. Totally open ended for modding. The ability to add horses and horse drawn weapons etc. WW2 as WW1 was HUGELY reliant on horses for logistics and in many places scouting. Even the might Wehrmacht used them massively. This would mean small areas of battles such as many 1800 battles could be fought. An SAI THAT REFLECTED REALITY! Logistics, stacking of units, manouver, reserves, cutting units off, real strategy!

CC has been too long stagnant, same engine, remakes, now porting to Android. Its not innovation in any way!

OK, RANT over lol ;) Yes I want a new CC. But modding wise, I think there is still much potential! I am open to ideas? I love creating maps, graphics etc. The whole point of CSO is really to keep a total and comprehensive base of all mods/maps/tools/files ever used and to act as a base for new-comers as well as us old-timers. With all its faults CC is still the ONLY real time combat game that models morale, cohesion, command etc etc, allows scavenging and much more. Nothing in terms or a real time tactical game has come close, which is why its still here! Remember CC is in the top 100 ever pc games, that's out of 10,000s....!

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Re: New Mod IDEAS - THOUGHTS ? Not Done Before?

Postby Sulla » Sat Apr 04, 2015 12:31 am

A Sicily mod would be very welcome too


That's another that would be good! Great terrain!

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Re: New Mod IDEAS - THOUGHTS ? Not Done Before?

Postby KG_Werfer » Sat Apr 04, 2015 1:10 am

Nice thread Shaun :D

Kursk mod finished. Maybe take some CC3 maps if whomever decided someday to attempt it and use them?

Monte Cassino locale. Town and fortress area.

Anzio initial landing. This one to me is really surprising that no one has attempted to create a mod on. It would even be a fair fight.

Here is one I've never seen any game create a battle on... Attu in the Aleutian islands...

My uncle was in that campaign. Attu invasion, Kiska also. I have stories on the brutal weather and fierce Japanese resistance, but would like to see a mod on that isle of Attu sometime also.
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Re: New Mod IDEAS - THOUGHTS ? Not Done Before?

Postby Antony_nz » Sat Apr 04, 2015 1:35 am

I think American Civil War is out of the question. Close Combat gameplay does not cover that type of strategy. Obviously the war was more modern the Napoleonic wars. But still 2 ancient 2 try and recreate in a CC game.

I originally dismissed the idea of of a Iwo Jima mod. Battle now that i think about it. It would make for a really fun challenge.

La Drang valley and the climax of the French-Vietnamese war would be a excellent choice.

I have always supported the idea of a Guadalcanal mod.

I want 2 see a Isis mod.

A Cuban revolution mod doesn't get much mention. I think it would work perfectly.

Burma is a great idea.
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Re: New Mod IDEAS - THOUGHTS ? Not Done Before?

Postby Pete » Sat Apr 04, 2015 9:43 am

KG_Werfer wrote:Nice thread Shaun :D

Anzio initial landing. This one to me is really surprising that no one has attempted to create a mod on. It would even be a fair fight.



If I am not mistaken PT11070, who started the Ortona mod, was interested in doing a mod about Anzio. He mentioned it on CCS forums. Not sure if he actually started working on it though.
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Re: New Mod IDEAS - THOUGHTS ? Not Done Before?

Postby Pete » Sat Apr 04, 2015 9:50 am

To be honest, Buck_Compton and I have a shortlist of potential future projects. Sicily is on it and so is the Six Day War in 1967.
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Re: New Mod IDEAS - THOUGHTS ? Not Done Before?

Postby Sulla » Sat Apr 04, 2015 12:21 pm

Its Strange,

Back in the day, as with Gold Juno Sword, Atilla had a major team of modders, created 50+ maps [look at Pac-Mod etc]

Have mods got significantly easier now? It used to be a major team task to create one good large scale mod, is it so easy now we can say we are doing several? What mods do you and Buck envisage Pete?

I think several of the major Italian operations would be great. Decent forces, infantry, great maps.

The rant I gave was about a NEW CC, not existing CC. Antony, why is the CC engine unsuited to any older battles? Modern as in WWII battles involved HUGE armies, several times the size of those in any older war. Look at Kursk, which was modded very well, probably the biggest battle ever. Berlin? Dozens of mods and even CC versions use CC to depict battles or campaigns massively bigger than any used in the US Civil War. What CC does is distil that down to small unit conflict.

"The Infantry in the American Civil War comprised foot-soldiers who fought primarily with small arms, and they carried the brunt of the fighting on battlefields across the United States. As the Civil War progressed, battlefield tactics soon changed in response to the new form of warfare being waged in America. The use of military balloons, rifled muskets, repeating rifles, and fortified entrenchments contributed to the death of many men."


The typical infantry regiment of the early Civil War consisted of 10 companies (each with exactly 100 men, according to Hardee's 1855 manual, and led by a captain, with associated lieutenants). Most companies were formed of three to six platoons, although the exact number varied. Field officers normally included a colonel (commanding), lieutenant colonel, and at least one major. With attrition from disease, battle casualties, and transfers, by the mid-war, most regiments averaged 300-400 men. Volunteer regiments were paid by the individual states, and officers at first were normally elected by popular vote, or were appointed by the state governors


The kind of abstraction used in CC would work well in the above scenarios. Especially as it was mostly an infantry war.

Just because it has not been done before, does not mean it cannot be done.

There are many significant campaigns, battles, operations, that could be modded.

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Re: New Mod IDEAS - THOUGHTS ? Not Done Before?

Postby Pete » Sat Apr 04, 2015 1:45 pm

Sulla wrote:Its Strange,

Back in the day, as with Gold Juno Sword, Atilla had a major team of modders, created 50+ maps [look at Pac-Mod etc]

Have mods got significantly easier now? It used to be a major team task to create one good large scale mod, is it so easy now we can say we are doing several? What mods do you and Buck envisage Pete?

Mods have not become any easier but I suppose it helps when you are a 2 man team. Less argueing, easier to communicate, clear work division. Buck takes care of the graphics and I take care of the data, sounds, battles, operations and campaign design and most of the historical research that is required. Buck works a lot faster than I do though. After we agree on a project and before battle locations have been thoroughly investigated by myself he starts churning out maps like a madman . When after my research I catch up with Buck I have him redo half of the finished maps. We then argue about the locations of battles, about which battles are more relevant than others in the campaign and how they fit on the strategic level and then I have him redo the other half. :D Using RAF aerial photographs , historical maps and google maps we usually decide well within the hour on map size, layout and content. Then, time permitting, Buck finishes the map within days. Data wise I do not attempt to reinvent the wheel and take a solid set of data as a starting point and change only the bare minimum of vehicle and weapons data. All the rest is reviewed and redone if necessary.
Still, the full mods we have worked on took us 4 years or so each to complete with various reasons for taking so long. By the time the Rhineland mod is finished it will have taken us 4 years again.

The mod after Rhineland is in the works data wise but there is not much I can say at this point except that it will be a small one. After that it will be Sicily, 6 Day War or the Pacific. Or something different if we change our minds again :?
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Re: New Mod IDEAS - THOUGHTS ? Not Done Before?

Postby Antony_nz » Sat Apr 04, 2015 9:59 pm

Anzio would be awesome. I also think Sicily would be great. The strategic map would be fun. Having both American and British troops with a clear objective. Plus the airborne landings and enveloping amphibious landing. It would be very entertaining.

Sulla. Maybe i have misunderstood. I thought the American civil war still featured a lot of musket warfare. Where armies would meet and exchange volleys until discipline broke. I thought to fire your rifle while standing was still a common occurrence. (Not common in CC)
I thought the battlefields still had a lot Calvary in them. Its wasn't the scale. It was the nature of the combat.
On hind site. There were probably times where battlefields turned into certain ww1 situations or what ever.

Do you have a particular battle or skirmish in mind Sulla?
Last edited by Antony_nz on Sat Apr 04, 2015 11:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: New Mod IDEAS - THOUGHTS ? Not Done Before?

Postby Antony_nz » Sat Apr 04, 2015 10:00 pm

I would like to see Gallipoli mod. Has one been done?
I don't think its been given the full mod treatment.
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Re: New Mod IDEAS - THOUGHTS ? Not Done Before?

Postby Sulla » Sun Apr 05, 2015 8:29 am

Hia Antony,

There was a lot of skirmishing in the US CW and it was much more like WW1 in many ways than Napoleonic wars.

On a platoon/squad - company level, I think CC could cope with parts of battles very well. There was very little in the way of Cavalry charges. It was mostly an infantry and artillery fight. I just think it would be good to think differently, of what could we "do" with this engine. Its always shone as an infantry and artillery/cannon simulator. What guns were used is easy to fix in the data etc. The rest is simply graphics.

Pete, great reply mate. 4 years is about right lol. Hey, what is up with so many of our great names in CC coming from the Netherlands? Attilla? GoD, so many others. Then Luer and Moloch from Finland. Some countries seem to produce lots of modders for some reason ;)

Anzio would be fun, as would Gallipoli. I think East Prussia holds some very good battles, the Germans were desperate and the USSR was hugely powerful, but the Germans fought some very good actions in East Prussia.

Burma would be another good one, also a very neglected area!

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Re: New Mod IDEAS - THOUGHTS ? Not Done Before?

Postby KG_Werfer » Sun Apr 05, 2015 3:36 pm

Antony_nz wrote:Anzio would be awesome. I also think Sicily would be great. The strategic map would be fun. Having both American and British troops with a clear objective. Plus the airborne landings and enveloping amphibious landing. It would be very entertaining.

Sulla. Maybe i have misunderstood. I thought the American civil war still featured a lot of musket warfare. Where armies would meet and exchange volleys until discipline broke. I thought to fire your rifle while standing was still a common occurrence. (Not common in CC)
I thought the battlefields still had a lot Calvary in them. Its wasn't the scale. It was the nature of the combat.
On hind site. There were probably times where battlefields turned into certain ww1 situations or what ever.

Do you have a particular battle or skirmish in mind Sulla?


There was a LOT of ACW work done in the PEG-WW2 engine Anthony. Not trying to "take you away" from CC by any means.. But when Robert, at JP's Panzers was designing the ACW campaigns? I did a TON of historical research for most everyone of them and then when wife, son and I went on vacation one year? Made a special effort of visiting many of the battlefields he was working on, along the "civil war corridor", known as I85 in Virginia, US and taking hundreds of photos.. Important bridgeworks, creeks, hills.. Many had been restored for use on the maps.

Sicily would be a great mod also as has been requested, also would put Monty and Patton together in the same campaign.

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